Energija

[bainit]

PuskA reče pred 1 uro:

TEŠ6 je izzsiljen projekt, ki nikoli in nikdar ni mel realne racunice, namenjen, da so si jastrebi pri koritu nakradli vse kar se je nakast dalo. Prvo kot prvo je so ga za 15let prepozno casovno placirali, zdaj pa dokler da bo lavfal, bo delal minus, zadnja leta take minuse, da bi lahk s tem dnarjem vsake 10km naredli hidroelektrarne cez celo savo al kje falijo.

 

Pogumen bo, tist k bo upal končno bilanco realno zracunat, se pravi od prvega cegla do koncne sanacije, deljeno s kolicino proizvedene elektrike. Da se zracuna kolk nas bo stala 1MWh iz TEŠ6.

 

https://www.dnevnik.si/1043047259

a maš dostop do članka? sicer pa bodo kmalu dražji CO2 kuponi kot pa sam lignit...

[colonel Tavington]

Če koga zanima... sicer serija javnih predavanj na teme podnebnih sprememb 

 

tokrat jedrska energija  

 

[Ivan JJ]

Nas ne zanima ker je fissija preziveta tehnologija, reaktorje smo pa nesposobni zgradit.

 

 

 

Exponential TM

[gerozaver]

Lol, solar, tudi z baterijami, je samo en del električne proizvodnje. Proizvodnja elektrike mora biti stabilna, kar pa solar ne more zagotavljati.

[bainit]

eno je moč, drugo je pa kapaciteta oz. letna proizvodnja.

pa lep lp

[Ivan JJ]

economist se strinja z mano

 

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2024/06/20/the-exponential-growth-of-solar-power-will-change-the-world

 

https://www.economist.com/interactive/essay/2024/06/20/solar-power-is-going-to-be-huge

 

 

[gerozaver]

Ne vem  poglej Nemčijo, kako kurijo premog ali uvažajo iz Poljske na premog štrom  Pa imajo veliko solar+veter kapacitet.

[Ivan JJ]

se v besedah za smoothbraine ki ne dojamete revolucije na ravni IC

 

It is 70 years since AT&T’s Bell Labs unveiled a new technology for turning sunlight into power. The phone company hoped it could replace the batteries that run equipment in out-of-the-way places. It also realised that powering devices with light alone showed how science could make the future seem wonderful; hence a press event at which sunshine kept a toy Ferris wheel spinning round and round.

 

Today solar power is long past the toy phase. Panels now occupy an area around half that of Wales, and this year they will provide the world with about 6% of its electricity—which is almost three times as much electrical energy as America consumed back in 1954. Yet this historic growth is only the second-most-remarkable thing about the rise of solar power. The most remarkable is that it is nowhere near over.

 

To call solar power’s rise exponential is not hyperbole, but a statement of fact. Installed solar capacity doubles roughly every three years, and so grows ten-fold each decade. Such sustained growth is seldom seen in anything that matters. That makes it hard for people to get their heads round what is going on. When it was a tenth of its current size ten years ago, solar power was still seen as marginal even by experts who knew how fast it had grown. The next ten-fold increase will be equivalent to multiplying the world’s entire fleet of nuclear reactors by eight in less than the time it typically takes to build just a single one of them.

 

Solar cells will in all likelihood be the single biggest source of electrical power on the planet by the mid 2030s. By the 2040s they may be the largest source not just of electricity but of all energy. On current trends, the all-in cost of the electricity they produce promises to be less than half as expensive as the cheapest available today. This will not stop climate change, but could slow it a lot faster. Much of the world—including Africa, where 600m people still cannot light their homes—will begin to feel energy-rich. That feeling will be a new and transformational one for humankind.

 

To grasp that this is not some environmentalist fever dream, consider solar economics. As the cumulative production of a manufactured good increases, costs go down. As costs go down, demand goes up. As demand goes up, production increases—and costs go down further. This cannot go on for ever; production, demand or both always become constrained. In earlier energy transitions—from wood to coal, coal to oil or oil to gas—the efficiency of extraction grew, but it was eventually offset by the cost of finding ever more fuel.

 

As our essay this week explains, solar power faces no such constraint. The resources needed to produce solar cells and plant them on solar farms are silicon-rich sand, sunny places and human ingenuity, all three of which are abundant. Making cells also takes energy, but solar power is fast making that abundant, too. As for demand, it is both huge and elastic—if you make electricity cheaper, people will find uses for it. The result is that, in contrast to earlier energy sources, solar power has routinely become cheaper and will continue to do so.

 

Other constraints do exist. Given people’s proclivity for living outside daylight hours, solar power needs to be complemented with storage and supplemented by other technologies. Heavy industry and aviation and freight have been hard to electrify. Fortunately, these problems may be solved as batteries and fuels created by electrolysis gradually become cheaper.

 

Another worry is that the vast majority of the world’s solar panels, and almost all the purified silicon from which they are made, come from China. Its solar industry is highly competitive, heavily subsidised and is outstripping current demand—quite an achievement given all the solar capacity China is installing within its own borders. This means that Chinese capacity is big enough to keep the expansion going for years to come, even if some of the companies involved go to the wall and some investment dries up.

 

In the long run, a world in which more energy is generated without the oil and gas that come from unstable or unfriendly parts of the world will be more dependable. Still, although the Chinese Communist Party cannot rig the price of sunlight as OPEC tries to rig that of oil, the fact that a vital industry resides in a single hostile country is worrying.

 

It is a concern that America feels keenly, which is why it has put tariffs on Chinese solar equipment. However, because almost all the demand for solar panels still lies in the future, the rest of the world will have plenty of scope to get into the market. America’s adoption of solar energy could be frustrated by a pro-fossil-fuel Trump presidency, but only temporarily and painfully. It could equally be enhanced if America released pent up demand, by making it easier to install panels on homes and to join the grid—the country has a terawatt of new solar capacity waiting to be connected. Carbon prices would help, just as they did in the switch from coal to gas in the European Union.

 

The aim should be for the virtuous circle of solar-power production to turn as fast as possible. That is because it offers the prize of cheaper energy. The benefits start with a boost to productivity. Anything that people use energy for today will cost less—and that includes pretty much everything. Then come the things cheap energy will make possible. People who could never afford to will start lighting their houses or driving a car. Cheap energy can purify water, and even desalinate it. It can drive the hungry machinery of artificial intelligence. It can make billions of homes and offices more bearable in summers that will, for decades to come, be getting hotter.

 

But it is the things that nobody has yet thought of that will be most consequential. In its radical abundance, cheaper energy will free the imagination, setting tiny Ferris wheels of the mind spinning with excitement and new possibilities.

 

This week marks the summer solstice in the northern hemisphere. The Sun rising to its highest point in the sky will in decades to come shine down on a world where nobody need go without the blessings of electricity and where the access to energy invigorates all those it touches.  ■

 

 

[Ivan JJ]

pa se za klovne k bi metal denar v vreco brez dna - jedrsko

https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2024/06/20/europe-faces-an-unusual-problem-ultra-cheap-energy

[Arey]

Poglej si renewables zgodbo nemcije pa ti bo, ce si uspel kaksno gubo na mozganih pridelat skozi zivljenje, jasno kako zelo fantasticna je.

[svit]

In kaj je v tej nemški renewables zgodbi tako "fantastično"?

[bainit]

da morajo uvažat štrom iz tujine - iz jedrskih elektrarn

25. junij 2024 uredilo bitje bainit

[svit]

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-consumption-and-power-mix-charts

25. junij 2024 uredilo bitje svit

[Ivan JJ]

Arey reče pred 5 urami:

Poglej si renewables zgodbo nemcije pa ti bo, ce si uspel kaksno gubo na mozganih pridelat skozi zivljenje, jasno kako zelo fantasticna je.

dej poglej stevilko leta

2014

[gerozaver]

svit reče pred 19 urami:

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-consumption-and-power-mix-charts

Manjka uvoz električne energije v Nemčijo 

[svit]

Ne manjka. Samo pogledat moraš ustrezen graf.

[gerozaver]

Ni, ne 

[svit]

Je, ja. 

[Wallux]

Nemčiji je od 2017 totalno padla proizvodnja štroma in še pada. Bolj ko se bodo šli to zeleno energijo manj štroma bodo proizvedli.

 

[Wallux]

Ivan JJ reče Dne, 23. 6. 2024 at 20:07:

economist se strinja z mano

 

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2024/06/20/the-exponential-growth-of-solar-power-will-change-the-world

 

https://www.economist.com/interactive/essay/2024/06/20/solar-power-is-going-to-be-huge

 

 

 

 Model, dokler ne pogruntajo baterij, ki lahko shranjujejo res ogromno količino energije, veterna in sončna ne bosta nikoli glavni vir energije.

 

In če smo pošteni. Vetrna in sončna tudi kot take nista zeleni energiji. Preveč sta okoljsko, prostorsko in materialno potratni.

 

Sorry, ampak to zame ni okolju prijazno. In da ne kažem kaj vse je potrebno za proizvodnjo tega in baterij.

 

 

 

 

Ta zeleni prehod ni nič kaj zelen. Samo en vzrok boš zamenjal za drugega. Prej so rili po zemlji zaradi premoga, plina in nafte. Potem bodo pa rili za vsemi minerali, ki jih poterebuješ za ''zeleno'' energijo.

 

Zemlja bo v vsakem primeru ''krvavela''. Razlika bo samo v tem, da se zdaj ne pretvarjamo, da delamo dobro za mati Gajo.

[╭∩╮ lynx]

Wallux reče pred 8 urami:

Nemčiji je od 2017 totalno padla proizvodnja štroma in še pada. Bolj ko se bodo šli to zeleno energijo manj štroma bodo proizvedli.

In kaj je narobe s tem? V vsej zgodovini na grafu je bilo lani prvo leto po 2002, ko pač niso neto izvažali elektrike. Pa veš, da je bila energetska kriza in zato ni najbolj merodajno leto.

 

Prej bi se vprašal zakaj jim tako upada poraba. Jim nagaja globalizacija? Uspešno delajo na bolj varčni in bolj samozadostni proizvodnji? Ukinjajo energetsko neučinkovite industrije?

[Arey]

A pa si ti vidu kako drasticno pada proizvodnja zadnja 3 ali 4 leta? To ni nekaj kar bo naslednje leto kar ravna crta postala ampak bo se naprej padalo. Soncne celice so krneki, za znizat stroske klime in filanja el. avta ze, kaj vec pa ne.

[jlpktnst]

Wallux reče pred 13 urami:

Nemčiji je od 2017 totalno padla proizvodnja štroma in še pada. Bolj ko se bodo šli to zeleno energijo manj štroma bodo proizvedli.

 

 

Plus da je tole bilanca. Vprašanje kok so peak deficiti. To lahko vodi tudi v blackoute in podobno, aja ne, ker se lahko šlepajo na EU power grid in jim sosedje zagotavljajo redundanco. Hkrati pa s tem nam nabijajo ceno elektrike v nebo. Res super. Na nek način lahko postanemo neto plačnik v EU brez da je to opazno.

 

Potreboval bi videt še finančno plat

[Wallux]

lynx reče pred 15 urami:

In kaj je narobe s tem? V vsej zgodovini na grafu je bilo lani prvo leto po 2002, ko pač niso neto izvažali elektrike. Pa veš, da je bila energetska kriza in zato ni najbolj merodajno leto.

 

Prej bi se vprašal zakaj jim tako upada poraba. Jim nagaja globalizacija? Uspešno delajo na bolj varčni in bolj samozadostni proizvodnji? Ukinjajo energetsko neučinkovite industrije?

 

Zapirajo jedrske elektrarne. In z manj štroma ne boš naredil več. Premog in plin kurijo ko ni vetra in kupujejo manjko štroma. Nemčija ima najdražji štrom. Gospodarstvo jim peša zaradi tega.

 

In za povrhu vske kar je na bencin selijo na štrom. Čedalje več stvari dajejo na štrom, a istočasno zmanjšuejo proizvodnjo štroma. Only in Germany!

[HellAngel]

Če kaj drži kot pribito, je da gospodarska rast na dolgi rok kolerira z rastjo porabe energentov. Nemčija je v letih 2000-2010 imela majhen padec porabe energije, ampak na rovaš okoljskih politik. Ampak to so kratkotrajni padci. Na dolgi rok, bo močno gospodarstvo vedno rabilo več -ne manj- energije.

[BlueSan]

lynx reče Dne, 27. 6. 2024 at 17:08:

In kaj je narobe s tem? V vsej zgodovini na grafu je bilo lani prvo leto po 2002, ko pač niso neto izvažali elektrike. Pa veš, da je bila energetska kriza in zato ni najbolj merodajno leto.

 

Prej bi se vprašal zakaj jim tako upada poraba. Jim nagaja globalizacija? Uspešno delajo na bolj varčni in bolj samozadostni proizvodnji? Ukinjajo energetsko neučinkovite industrije?

 

Poraba jim upada ker selijo proizovodnjo v tujino, ker je energija za zagon slednje ratala predraga.

 

Kot je rekel Hell bolj ko bo razvito gospodarstvo več energije bo porabilo (kje jo bo pa dobilo, je pa druga debata). 

29. junij 2024 uredilo bitje BlueSan

[Ivan JJ]

poraba ni enako kot proizvodnja

 

eliktrificirani procesi so veliko bolj ucinkoviti

[Death]

Ivan JJ reče pred 22 minutami:

poraba ni enako kot proizvodnja

 

eliktrificirani procesi so veliko bolj ucinkoviti

Ti se pa še nisi srečal z industrijo. Gleda se na cente in ne na učinkovitost. Skratka čista matematika. Pogosto pa se energentov ne uporablja samo kot vir energije ampak tudi reagente - recimo koks,... Predelava pa tudi stane. Če je CAPEX višji za elektriko je to tudi potrebno upoštevati kljub nižjemu OPEXU.

[Wallux]

Ivan JJ reče Dne, 29. 6. 2024 at 23:51:

poraba ni enako kot proizvodnja

 

eliktrificirani procesi so veliko bolj ucinkoviti

 

Pa kaj ti to pomaga, če je pa problem pri štromu shramba. Dokler nimaš to poštiman, vetrna in sončna sta stran vržen dnar.

[PuskA]

TEŠ 6 going minus 200mio next year

 

https://www.rtvslo.si/gospodarstvo/tesu-z-januarjem-2025-grozi-stecaj-drzava-naj-bi-ga-financno-resevala-z-interventno-zakonodajo/719875